Author Topic: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS  (Read 11215 times)

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« on: May 29, 2016, 10:30:41 AM »
Hello,

I had a left ankle procedure at HSS with Dr. Drakos on May 26th.   So far so good.   Happy to answer any questions.

The procedure was to address a lesion on the medial side, but there was also a smaller one on the lateral side (only debridement there).  [CORRECTION - I FOUND OUT AT MY 2 WEEK APPOINTMENT THAT THEY ACTUALLY ALSO DID BIOCARTILAGE AND BMAC ON THE LATERAL SIDE]

I chose this procedure/this doctor after a fair bit of research because it seemed to be the least invasive option, which if necessary doesn't prevent any further options.   My level of pain on a daily basis leading up to the surgery was low but consistent.

Kerri
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:06:53 AM by Kerri »

Offline SCSankle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 07:45:39 AM »
I hope you're feeling pretty good post-op. I had similar procedure to you minus the biocartilage on Nov 5th (not at HSS, I'm not near NYC). Out of curiousity, what sort of non-weight bearing schedule does your doctor have you on? There seems to be a huge amount of variation in that across posts.


Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 01:36:49 AM »
6 weeks total NWB.  First 2 weeks with foot elevated above heart for 22 hours a day.  Its been tough particularly at night because I'm often too uncomfortable to sleep.  One more week of that to go!

Offline cshires

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 12:06:19 PM »
Oh boy, I remember that part. I kept reading about how people slept and slept during the first week or two after surgery. For me, I could never get comfortable enough to sleep for very long. I think after a week or 10 days I asked the PA if I could carefully sleep on my side and he said yes. It felt like heaven to turn over!

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2016, 03:46:31 PM »
My foot gets weirdly jumpy/jerky at night -- I think its sensitive nerves.   So I asked the PA if I could take some muscle relaxants I have from a previous episode with pinched nerves.  Weirdly (to me) the recommendation instead was to go back to one percocet at bedtime, which certainly does make me sleep.   Guess they didn't want to mix up too much what was in my system.

Just a few more days to the first post-op appointment!

Offline cshires

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 01:23:38 AM »
Mine was jumpy at night too. I think I was finally fully Percoset-free by 9 or 10-days post op.

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 08:09:31 AM »
Thanks C!   Last 2 nights were Percocet-free and decent (if not ideal) sleep.   52 hours until my first post-op appointment!!   But who's counting?  :)

Offline wallywest

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 11:34:23 PM »
Hello,

First Kerri thank you so much for being so forthcoming with your diagnosis/surgery information.  I thought I would shoot some questions at you feel free to answer if you wish.

Why did Drakos choose not to do microfracture?  Was your lesion too large for microfracture to be effective?  I am asking because it seems that every variation I read/hear about is debridlement + microfracture then fill with the biological adjunct (biocartilage + HMAC), so I was just curious why that wasn't the case for you.

Speedy recovery.

Justin

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2016, 10:18:19 PM »
Thanks Justin.

Drakos told me that for about the last a year and a half (more than 60 procedures before mine) he had stopped using micro fracture.   He does "scrape down to healthy, bleeding bone" to create vascularity for the new cells.   He believes this is the best treatment, regardless of size and position.

I saw probably 6-7 doctors before deciding what to do.   Even at HSS, other doctors are doing MF.   Kennedy does it.  O'Malley told me that he would do the same thing as Drakos.  (I have some other posts on here outlining what the various doctors recommended.)

I went with Drakos in the end because his approach seemed proportional for the extent of my problem -- which had reached a point that I needed to do something, but wasn't completely debilitating by any means.

Drakos also told me that he doesn't have 5 year evidence -- the procedure is still too new.  He said he has had great success with it, but he just can't tell me what will happen in 5 years.  That is what he articulated as his biggest concern about doing the procedure.

I was also told by Drakos that, if it didn't work or the repair failed in the future, I wouldn't be any worse off than before the procedure.

Kennedy had recommended against MF for me (he wanted to do a much more invasive procedure called OATS) because he believed in my case, due to the position of the lesion, MF would ultimately fail, and I'd be left with a bigger lesion than I started with.  (These guys are all doing their best to read MRIs, and I don't think its a perfect science.   He and Drakos and O'Malley all had different opinions about the size and exact placement of my lesion.  Drakos told me post-surgery that the one they were primarily dealing with was not on the shoulder -- which was good.  The small lateral one that was the secondary problem was on the shoulder)

Hope that's all helpful.   My biggest suggestion is, if you can take the time and can afford it, get multiple opinions from doctors until you feel really comfortable with a doctor and a procedure.

Good luck!

Kerri

Offline Kaitym035

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 07:57:08 AM »
Hi Kerri!
Thank you for sharing your story. I am considering OCD surgery with Dr. Drakos in the next few months. I was wondering how long it was before you were able to put full weight through the ankle. He and the PA made it sound like 2 weeks in a splint NWB, then 4 weeks in a boot NWB. Then they mentioned still using crutches for a few weeks after, so I wasn't sure if it progressed to partial weight bearing for a few weeks. Thank you!

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 10:06:01 AM »
Hi Kaity -
 
I just had my 6 week appointment  on July 6, so am not yet FWB.

First 2 weeks in a hard splint - elevated above the heart 22 hours/day.    You definitely want someone around to prepare foot and otherwise help out.

Next 4 weeks in a boot - elevation was permitted to be "less" and you are permitted to use a knee walker.  I found I could get around a little, and could regain self-sufficiency to prepare food in my own apartment, but that I still needed to elevate as much as possible for swelling and to minimize discomfort.

I've only just started the transition back to FWB.   Nicole and Dr. Drakos said average was 4 weeks, but could be anywhere 2-6 weeks.   The script says to start with 50lbs on the operative leg, and progress gradually by adding 25-50lbs per week.  You stay in the boot until you can walk FWB with no limp.   

I don't really have a view yet how long it will take.  First day I felt discouraged, like it would take months.  By third day there was already a big difference, although I'm probably not putting a full 50lbs on it yet.  Its really impossible to gage that without an old fashioned scale!

ROM remains restricted and I was told that is normal.  Also from other folks posts here it seems like that may be the thing that takes the longest to return.

I'm very comfortable with my choice to go forward with Dr. Drakos, for what its worth.   I sat on this for a few years and researched the hell out of it.   But I think its very dependent on your specifics and how comfortable you feel with each doctor.

Best of luck!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:08:46 AM by Kerri »

Offline Kaitym035

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 05:21:06 PM »
Hi Kerri,
Thank you so much! That is very helpful to know. I am trying to gauge how many weeks I need to take off from work since my job is very physically demanding. I am glad you're happy with Dr. Drakos--he seems excellent! Best of luck in your recovery :)

Offline jnj15

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2016, 02:07:57 PM »
Hi Kerri,

I just wanted to comment on Dr. Drakos's comment that he does not do microfracture, but does "scrape down to healthy, bleeding bone" to create vascularity for the new cells. That sounds like microfracture to me! Maybe I just don't understand fully. I've heard Denovo and Biocartilage referred to as "microfracture plus" techniques: an enhanced microfracture technique, if you will, which seems more accurate than saying "I don't do microfracture anymore," but maybe I'm missing something or just getting too caught up with semantics. Hope everything continues to go well with the recovery!

Jason

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 06:39:29 PM »
Hey Jason -

I specifically asked Drakos about MF and he told me he doesn't do it.  O'Malley told me the same thing.  Versus Kennedy who told me he does.  I think MF may refer specifically to creating holes in the bone to draw blood up, but I'm not positive.

Anyway, whatever he did, I hope it works!

:)

Offline Kerri

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Debridement, Biocartilage + BMAC at HSS
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 12:08:45 AM »
Hi All,

Just an update:

1.  I took my first flight post-surgery (from NYC to Vancouver...so a long haul).   Wore compression socks and loaded up on advil.   And was walking around Vancouver a whole lot more than I had been walking, and doing a whole lot less PT type activities, for 4 days for meetings.  Predictably I experienced a lot more swelling and decreased ROM.   That's the bad news.

2.  The good news:   First day back today, in PT, I was able to walk with just one crutch for the first time!   Only about 50 steps...but progress!

I am feeling just minor pain/aggravation on the operative side (although the ROM is still poor).   However, unfortunately, as predicted my non-operative side (which was also diagnosed this year as having similar but less symptomatic OCDs) has been acting up.   I'm hoping the non-operative side chills out again once I stop putting so much extra weight on it.   But, if not, I'll try the conservative treatments for it -- which I haven't previously done.  (And also, synvisc wasn't offered to me on the operative side before it got so bad i had to move forward with surgery).

That's the update!

Kerri