Author Topic: Does Conservative Treatment Work?  (Read 21796 times)

Offline ubachman

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Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« on: December 23, 2014, 11:49:08 AM »
Hi,
I am a 58 year old woman who was hit by a car on July 2014 and was initially thought to have a severe sprain to my left foot. By the end of August after an MRI and a bone scan they found a very small (2 x5 mm) non-displaced lateral ocd on the talar dome and another fracture in my foot. After 3 months of an aircast and crutches I saw a surgeon who indicated that I should come out of the cast and start PT which I have been doing twice a week since the end of November. It has helped my flexibility and strength but I still limp with swelling and pain. He did say that if the swelling and pain continues to have a steroid shot in my ankle.

In comparison to many on this post my injury is nominal however my concern is what will happen in the future since I'm not a spring chicken and not exactly at my optimal weight. There doesn't seem to be anyone posting that conservative treatment actually worked and they did not have to have surgery. Is it because they just healed and no longer posted anything or is it because they went on to have another treatment? Thanks.



Offline dave1234

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 10:13:23 AM »
The reports from studies in the following article indicate about 50% success rate for conservative treatment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2809940/

Conservative treatment worked for about 4 years for me.  then pain returned.  Also worth getting orthotic show inserts to slightly tilt your ankle to unload the damaged spot. 

Your defect is small, so probably worth giving conservative care an appropriate shot before considering surgery. 

Best of luck with things!

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 01:44:45 PM »
Thanks for replying to my post Dave. If you don't mind me asking how long did it take for you to get better using the conservative method, what kind of methods did you use and what happened after the pain returned?

Offline dave1234

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2014, 10:09:25 PM »
No impact activities for 1 yr.  then resumed rugby + trail running.  4 yrs later, had to stop running.  2 years after that my ankle had degraded where I couldn't walk even a few steps without pain, and needed surgery.  see my original post for more at http://osteochondraldefect.net/forum/index.php?topic=152.0 

Offline Namelike

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2015, 10:08:27 PM »
Does conservative treatment ever fully repair an OCD or just put a band aid on it until it degenerates into something worse? If I were you I would strongly consider just getting surgery now and fixing it before it gets even worse. 6 months of conservative treatment from now you're going to look back and realize if you had gotten surgery you would be fully recovered already.

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 09:11:51 PM »
Surgery is never my first option but if I end up having to have surgery when I'm older, it will be much more difficult. A less than 50% chance of this injury not causing problems later is not reassuring. However I have to give it my best shot. Thanks for the replies and if anyone has not had to resort to surgery I'm sure this forum would appreciate knowing about it.

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 03:26:48 PM »
Just wanted to update my progress with conservative treatment after 9 months. Finished PT but continue to do exercises, ice ankle and reduced weight bearing. Catching continues on and off, with pain and swelling daily in various degrees depending on the amount of weight bearing I do. In 3 months if symptoms continue I will go back for an MRI.

Offline casper1955

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 06:02:17 PM »
I tried conservative treatment for a 13mm x 9mm lesion.  I also had a completely detached fragment (bone and cardilage).  It eventually began catching in the joint a few times a day then a few times an hour.  I had MF surgery on MArch 12, 2015.  Today they took the splint off and their was very minimal swelling.  I also started PT for range of motion exercises. 

So far I am glad I had the surgery as my ankle has not felt this good in over 1 1/2 years.  I am 60 and I am pretty physically active prior to surgery and expect to be so again after surgery.  I gave up running about 4 years ago.  But I walk 2 - 4 miles at a 4 mile anhour pace 5 days a week.  I swim and bike also. 

Don't let your age get in your way and give up.  You need to stay active and if this is stopping you then talk to your OS.  I have found that friends that are not active have aged much faster than those that stay active.

Good luck

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 08:50:06 PM »
Thanks for the reply Casper. I'm glad that you are feeling much better after the surgery.

Interestingly enough in the past two days the catching in my ankle was brutal; today it is less. You never know what the day will be bring. I'm hoping to get better sooner than later so I can get back to even just walking! I live in Alberta, Canada and just got through a very icy winter so now that it is getting warmer would like to get out and enjoy it. I keep hoping!

Offline NiteOwl

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 08:55:35 PM »
Hi, this is my first post here.  Just want to share that I'm in the process of trying conservative treatment for my OCD of the talus, but it's way too early to say whether it's going to be successful.  Hoping for the best, of course.

Ubachman, I too am female, close in age to you.   I wasn't hit by a car, ( how horrible for you! ) but my injury happened shortly after yours.  I stepped off a curb in October, 2014 and fell down hard on my right ankle.  I had never sprained my ankle before, and when it swelled, I just did the RICE treatment.  Since I could still walk on it, though painful, I did not get it checked out initially.  ( Big mistake. )

Fast forward two months, and since it was still hurting I finally went to my orthopedist to check it.  To my surprise, he said I had broken my ankle - an avulsion fracture of the lateral malleolus.  He couldn't believe I had walked on a broken ankle for two months.  He put me in a boot for seven weeks, and when he x-rayed my ankle at the end of January, he told me the ankle fracture had not healed, but was stable and might not require surgery.  ( Something about getting encased in scar tissue, and not causing any more pain. )  Then he told me about the OCD lesion on the lateral shoulder of the talar dome.

I had never even heard of it, and he didn't go into a lot of detail about it.  Just said he'd keep a watch on it.  However, when I researched it at home, I felt very nervous and discouraged.  So little 'positive' about it anywhere.

I saw him again at the end of February and the x-rays were the same.  My ankle was still very sore, and he ordered a month of physical therapy, saying he believed the pain was more related to the inflammation from the ligaments than with the OCD lesion.  He reassured me that many people become asymptomatic with OCDs, and don't need surgery for them.  Said he was hopeful that I too would do fine.

I just completed the physical therapy and it has helped.  My ankle feels stronger and I have much more flexibility in it.  Pain is minimal most days.  I just saw my doctor again, and once more, the x-rays are the same.  He pointed out that the OCD looks stable, and has not changed from the start.  He said too that my ankle exam was good, and that I have no fluid in my ankle.  'No red flags' is how he put it.  When I asked if he was going to order an MRI, he said he would not unless I developed more symptoms.

Of course, without an MRI, I don't know the size of it which really concerns me.  I suspect it must be fairly large for it to show up on x-ray.  ( I don't think smaller ones do. )  He did say he would continue to do serial x-rays indefinitely to keep an eye on it.  I'll see him again in two months.

However, he encouraged me to continue with all normal activities.  I was not into any heavy duty sports, but I was a three mile/day walker for years.  I have not been able to get back to that level yet, though I am doing at least a mile/day, and sometimes more, depending on the discomfort.  Most of the time, it's not bad, but I don't want to overdo it. 

Sorry this is so lengthy.  I just wanted to explain my conservative treatment route so far.  I'm really hoping it will work, but can't help but feel sort of paranoid about the whole situation.  Like waiting for the other shoe to drop...

My heart goes out to everyone here going through this.  I feel so sad for all those who want to do active sports; those who have young children and families to care for.  People just wanting to have a normal life.  This is such a kick in the teeth in so many ways! 

I appreciate this forum and want to thank all who have taken the time to share their situations and advice with others.   I'll keep posting updates too as I go along.  I hope my situation might be able to give others a sense of cautious optimism...     

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 09:33:36 PM »
Hi Nite Owl,
Sorry to hear you too are going through what you called the "cautious optimistic" route as well. Unfortunately there aren't many posts from those who have had the conservative treatment work for them completely. Today is one of my optimistic days when the pain and swelling is minimal with no catching in the ankle. I've had a few days like these in the past 9 months but it never seems to last. I still hope to eventually give those who are researching the web with this question a positive answer in the end. I hope your journey comes to a positive end as well! :)

Offline casper1955

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2015, 09:57:51 AM »
Ubachman and Night Owl  Good luck with your conservative treatment  I am cheering for you and hoping the conservative treatment works well.  The NWB period after surgery is a grind and frustrating so I hope and wish for your success. 

Don't get me wrong I still feel very fortunate and think I am making good progress but I still get very frustrated doing simple things that take me forever on one leg and crutches.  Hopefully I will be weight bearing at the end of this month.


Offline NiteOwl

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2015, 06:55:05 PM »
Thanks so much, ubachman and casper1955, for the well-wishes on this journey.  What a journey it is too, one that nobody wants to take.

I've been following and reading all of your postings, and wish both of you good luck too.  Ubachman, I'm so sorry for the brutal pain and catching you're dealing with, as well as the limping.  This injury is such a maddening one.  Casper1955, I'm not eager to undergo any surgical procedure or its aftermath, but your sharing of your experience, ( as well as others here too, ) will be a big help to me if I do end up going through it.  It's good to know I have a source of reference if that time comes.

Regretfully, I'm aware that chances are likely that the time WILL come eventually b/c as you say, ubachman, there are so few posts anywhere of anyone who has been completely successful with conservative treatment.  When I mentioned that fact to my doctor though, he didn't agree.  He said that he has found many OCD lesions on x-ray purely by accident - that patients came in for a different reason entirely and the OCDs were present but causing no problems.  The patients were not even  aware of them.  He also reminded me that people who are doing well with conservative treatment just get on with their lives.  They're no longer looking for information about it on the Internet. 

I understand that, but I still believe the successful conservative treatment is the exception, not the rule.  Ubachman, let's hope we can work toward being the exceptions.  At times it seems that recovering from this, ( as far as symptoms ) feels like a pipe dream.  Yet other times I do feel more hopeful.  I am actively researching for any information that might help tip the odds a bit.

One thing I believe is in my favor is that I don't have to work 12 hour night shifts on this ankle anymore.  I had just retired three months before my injury, so I'm thankful I can rest it whenever I need to.  Another thing I've read that might help is custom orthotics to offload the weight from the OCD lesion.  I've already been wearing them for many years due to flat feet, so perhaps they are helping with this too.  ( I'll need new ones soon, so I'll ask about any special design needed for the OCD. )

Another plus too, is I have no desire to do any high impact activities - that's not a sacrifice on my part.  ( All I want is to get back to my daily walks.)  So hopefully, that will help.

Also I have very little pain at this point.  I do have some clicking in my ankle at times, but no swelling, catching, limping, or any real problems with movement.  I'm certainly aware that could all change at a moment's notice.  Right now at this time though, I'm thankful for anything good about this at all.

The mental part of this is a struggle b/c I have so many 'what-ifs' running through my head.  I know though that a positive attitude is very important.

I apologize for writing another lengthy post, but I hope it might be of some benefit to others who are in the same boat and looking for information too.  I'm open to any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks again, ubachman and casper1955, and best wishes to both of you! 

Edited to add:  It was dave1234 who first mentioned the orthotics ( above in this thread. )  It had been awhile since I read this thread from the beginning, so it had slipped my mind that HIS post was where I had read it first.  So sorry for not giving proper credit...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 01:03:30 PM by NiteOwl »

Offline ubachman

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 07:27:35 PM »
 May 15/15 - After 10 months of pain, swelling, limping, physiotherapy, icing, etc., I've finally had several days in a row without pain! Being very optimistic! :)

Offline NiteOwl

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Re: Does Conservative Treatment Work?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2015, 01:22:22 PM »
So pleased to read your update, ubachman, and hope you continue to improve.  I know you're hoping that if possible, conservative treatment will help you avoid surgery.  It may be a long shot but I wish you the best!

So many possible scenarios and treatment options though.  Each person has to make their own decision, and it's so hard to know for certain what is best in the long run.  I cheer for everyone who is doing well regardless of their treatment.  I'm so pleased to see people start to get their lives back!

Fortunately, my ankle OCD is still doing well at this time with conservative treatment.  It's been seven months since my injury, and I'm relatively pain-free most of the time.  I can move it fairly easily and even go up and down steps normally.  I was back up to my regular three miles walking on flat ground ( every other day though, instead of daily, in order to include a rest day in between ) until I was sidelined with a bad sinus infection.  Hoping to resume soon, but at least, my ankle is feeling okay. 

Oh, my ankle is not like it used to be.  I still feel some discomfort in the transition from sitting to standing, or walking on uneven pavement.  It's definitely there, but I can live with it if it doesn't get a whole lot worse.  Right now it's more of an occasional nuisance than a real problem.  My next ortho appt is the middle of next month, and I'm not quite as nervous about it as I've been with the others.  Of course, I know the story is not over.  The future is unknown but I'm continuing with my 'cautious optimism' at this time too.

Hope your optimism continues to be rewarded as well, and that your pain and movement keep getting better.  Please keep us posted.  Good luck as you go forward!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 01:29:29 PM by NiteOwl »